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Super Episode 22 (06 December 2015)
Topic Started: Dec 6 2015, 03:30 AM (11,692 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Hujio
 
チェーンジ!まさかの復活!その名はギニュー!!
Chēnji! Masaka no Fukkatsu! Sono Na wa Ginyū!!
Change! An Impossible Revival! The Name's Ginyu!!

Summary:

As Tagoma powers up, the Z Warriors are astonished at his amazing ki. He’s clearly on a different level than the other soldiers. Hiding behind a rock, Jaco assures Bulma that they can definitely defeat him: after all, it’s five against one. Bulma is angry that Jaco isn’t joining the fight himself, but he explains that he’s in charge of handling the big horde of enemies, which Tagoma “obviously” isn’t a part of. Sorbet still can’t believe how powerful Tagoma has grown, but Tagoma reassures him: even after he becomes commander, he’ll still let Sorbet be his doorman. Confronting the Z Warriors, Tagoma confidently tells the five to come at him all at once, but instead Piccolo steps up to face him 1-on-1. However, Tagoma isn’t fazed by Piccolo’s punch, and easily breaks his arm off. Gohan angrily blasts Tagoma away, and while Piccolo regrows his army, Tagoma proves to have been unharmed by Gohan’s attack. He explains that enduring Freeza’s attacks during their four months training together has given him a “body of steel”, and so their “refined” attacks have no effect on him. At that point Gotenks charges into battle, tackling Tagoma right in the crotch. Tagoma doubles over in pain, and Kame-sennin notes that this was an “unrefined” attack.

Gotenks is mad at the others for leaving him behind for something fun like this. Bulma says he’s no match for this opponent, but Gotenks still considers himself invincible. Looking up, he identifies Freeza as the boss, but just as he’s about to take him on, he suddenly splits back up into Goten and Trunks. From their faces, Freeza deduces that Goten is the son of Goku, while Trunks must also be a Saiyan, since he looks just like the one who sliced him in two. Freeza is upset to see that the Saiyans have multiplied so much while he’s been dead, and vows to wipe them all out. He orders Tagoma (still in pain) to pull himself together and finish the enemy off. However, as Tagoma remains on the ground in pain, a frog with antenna runs up to him, writing something in the dirt in front of him using some strange alien alphabet. Tagoma reads the word out loud: “Change”. The moment he says this, his personality suddenly alters. He starts doing weird poses, and even his voice seems different…

The new Tagoma greets Freeza: “It’s been a long time”. It turns out that this is Ginyu, former captain of the Ginyu Force. As Jaco explains, this was the top unit in Freeza’s army, composed of their most elite troops (meanwhile Goten and Trunks are annoyed, saying their poses are cooler than this guy’s). While Freeza had long since assumed Ginyu had died, Ginyu explains how back on Planet Namek he used his special body-swapping abilities to try and change bodies with Vegeta, but “that other Saiyan” (ie Goku) interfered, trapping him in the body of a frog. Later, he somehow suddenly found himself on Earth (Piccolo notes that this was due to their wish on the dragon balls to move everyone except Goku and Freeza from Namek to Earth). Since then he endured many hardships, but he always retained his faith that one day he would be able to fight for Freeza’s sake once more. Bulma seems upset when she recognizes who Ginyu is, telling Jaco that she “doesn’t want to talk about it”.

While Ginyu has invented a special new pose to commemorate his revival, Freeza simply instructs him to finish off Gohan and co. He says he’s not used to his new body yet, but he’ll give it a shot. Powering up, he recognizes Gohan as that kid from Namek, all grown up, and wonders how much Gohan has improved since back then. Ginyu quickly knocks down the entire five person group, and Freeza applauds in delight. It turns out that Tagoma’s body is even more powerful now that Ginyu is in control of it. Jaco explains that Ginyu has drawn out Tagoma’s power, vaguely saying “that’s the sort of life-form he is”. Meanwhile, Bulma sneaks back to Jaco’s ship with Goten and Trunks in tow. Bringing out the strawberry sundae, the three of them call out to Whis to try and get his attention, while Jaco looks on, wondering what they’re doing.

Over on Beerus’ planet, he and Whis are enjoying some pizza. Whis still thinks it was “too early” to send Goku and Vegeta to “that place”, but Beerus disagrees: the two of them get stronger the harder they’re pushed, so this should be a good way for them to get stronger in a short amount of time. And Beerus thinks they’ll need to get stronger fast if they’re going to make good “playmates” for him. Elsewhere, Goku and Vegeta float in midair in this mysterious place. At first they can’t even move, but Vegeta figures out that the trick is to raise their ki without having it “leak out” of their bodies. Though they can now move, the place is still harsh, exerting incredible pressure on them due to what Goku believes to be godly ki. It’s also hot, and difficult to breathe…just like the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku assumes that like the Room, time must likewise flow differently in this place. He warns Vegeta that they’d better find a building with some food before they starve to death, while Vegeta wonders if Whis’ staff is the only way to get into and out of this place.

Back on Earth, Gohan steps up to fight Ginyu 1-on-1. He becomes a Super Saiyan, shocking Freeza, who didn’t know that Goku’s son was likewise capable of this transformation. As a Super Saiyan Gohan quickly neutralizes Ginyu; while Ginyu won’t give up, Gohan says that there’s no point in continuing the fight. Suddenly though, Gohan is pierced by one of Freeza’s ki beams, who states that he’ll finish Gohan off in place of Ginyu. Freeza remembers when Goku spared his life on Namek, a memory which still sickens him. Firing blast after blast into Gohan, he demands that he cry and beg for his life…”Not that I’d ever spare you, of course”. The others try and step in, but Tagoma holds them off. Freeza can’t wait to see the look on Goku’s face when he sees that his son is dead. He fires a finishing blast…but Piccolo suddenly jumps in the way, shielding Gohan.

First the good:
-Freeza torturing Gohan by shooting him full of holes.
-Piccolo jumping in the way of Freeza's attack.
-Ginyu being Ginyu.
-Freeza reacting to Goten and Trunks.

The bad:
-Gotenks diffused as soon as he headbutted Tagoma. This is just bloody f***ing stupid. Even if I were expected to believe it took Gotenks a while to get there, which is nonsense since he can travel roughly at the speed of light, and this was prior to his visit to the ROSAT, Tagoma isn't just going to wait for 30 minutes to attack the Z-fighters.
-The fights were incredibly short lived.

The what?
-Apparently Ginyu can use the technique as long as the word change is uttered... by anyone.

As far as the next episode preview goes. Vegeta taking out Tagoma/Ginyu is a bit disappointing. It would have been cool if Gohan took him out. Give him something to do for f***s sake! The next episode also appears to have poor art, so not looking forward to that.

While this episode wasn't bad per say, I mean, there was plenty to enjoy, my Super hype is starting to wear off. Even when presented really cool shake-ups, Super manages to find a way to disappoint me. And the power scaling is starting to get noticeably bad too IMO. I've pretty much given up on an explanation for Vegeta's stupidly incredible increase during said "furious mutation", and Freeza's increase has become more substantial than I had previously thought. Yeah, sure fine, Freeza is a prodigy, whatever, but why the f*** is Tagoma so god damn strong? In 4 months, some Zarbon level trash is suddenly stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan, who's base level is superior to f***ing Piccolo's, whom at this point should be closing in on Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks?
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Dec 6 2015, 04:16 PM.
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Ginyu
Ginyu was stated to be able to bring out his full potential plus after the change, so maybe they are the same race. Goku was an anomaly people must remember as he was shocked he could not access the full power of a body. That tells me he never took a saiyan over before for one and for two kaioken was something he didn't get as that body was actually weaker than Ginyu's without it.

Vegeta and Goku
Vegeta showed that he was wiser than Goku and still a step ahead again. First he was still able to stand after their spar while Goku could not. Now he is able to stop the room from overwhelming him first by his godly ki mastery thanks to whis. For once hes setting the example. And I for one want him to waste Ginyu so he can have the complete set ... Cui, Dadoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, and Ginyu. To me it's fitting that the Vegeta lineage (him and future Trunks) killed off every Lt and leader of the planet trade including Frieza and his dad after they annihilated his birth rate. He will never be better than Goku but I can live with them as equals in power with just different self weaknesses.

Piccolo
Piccolo. Piccolo made the ultimate sacrifice again, showing why he is always a better father than Gohan's own dad. It's why I rather he train Pan too. I hope he chooses to seek out Supreme Kai and get the power up Gohan got or learn the kaioken.

Gohan and Frieza
Oh he looked like a bad a*** when he went super and two shotted Ginyu. Frieza torturing him was perfect. He is really freaking pathetic though in the grand scheme of things when you think about it. He nearly dies at Buu because he let himself get weak for 7 years. He gets a magic power up and still loses and dies, then never trains again. HE gets one shotted with Buu as a pillow and is below Buu now at Beerus. He gets nearly killed twice here. And if they go by the manga he doesn't train again. HE literally has no drive to protect himself, the planet, or anyone as long as Daddy Goku, Uncle Vegeta, and Piccolo are there. Probably the sickest display for Frieza since he killed Vegeta on Namek. That was Kid Buu level sick. I appreciate that level of commitment from him.

Gotenks - Goten/Trunks
I'm glad he got in one thing and split. The boys serve no purpose individually since they aren't Goku or Future Trunks. HE is a joke of a character whose only win is vs Hitler. It is so him to make an entrance, talk s***, and then be useless despite his power. IT was fun seeing Trunks and Goten cower once they separated and hide, and it showed why Vegeta didn't want them on a battle field back in Buu saga

Roshi, Tien, Krillin, Bulma
Makes sense tien doesnt know anything about him so he was surprised. Wow Roshi is over powered as he took the same hit as the others and got up, poor Yamcha and Chaiotzu. Krillin and Bulma remembering Ginyu so quickly was well done and shows that filler Bulma is counted. That means Bulma has two kills to her name as well, making her more useful than Yamcha and Chaiotzu since she killed two planet trade guys in filler.
Edited by Kblo247, Dec 6 2015, 07:16 AM.
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It seems like they listened to the complaints about the last saga being too slow paced and tried to fix it here. Problem is it's now too fast paced (not as bad as the manga, but still). Everything gets hyped up and then ends way too fast. Like Tagoma is now a huge threat, he fights them for about 30 seconds, then we get Gotenks, who lasts about the same amount of time. Then Ginyu body changes with Tagoma and becomes an even bigger threat...and he's beaten easily by SSj Gohan, and Gohan himself then gets taken down easily by Freeza. And by the looks of it, Goku and Vegeta's time in that weird dimension won't last long since they'll be on the battlefield next episode.

It's like they have a bunch of ideas that they aren't doing anything with.

Goten and Trunks looking like Goku and Future Trunks didn't go anywhere outside of Freeza recognising them.

Since when could Ginyu draw out a persons power beyond their normal level? It used to be literally the exact opposite.

There's way too many flashbacks in this episode. Was it written by Kishimoto or something?

There was some things I liked, like Freeza torturing Gohan was pretty dark, and Piccolo's sacrifice.

I didn't particularly like this episode...
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魔王子

Regarding the power scaling, this is where I have everyone now:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Dec 10 2015, 12:48 AM.
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I thought it was alright. Pacing was a little all over the place

There was some good some bad. What the f***? I didn't think about it at first but yeah how the hell is gotenks's time already out by the time they get to there? What? At least goten and trunks are actually there though

I like goku and vegeta getting sent to a ROSAT kind of place. That was cool

Ginny arriving. Frieza torturing gohan and piccolo sacrificing himself again. Gohan treating tagoma the way goku treated Frieza. Lots of cool throwbacks

But yeah the fights could've been better.

Ginyu has full control over tagoma's body when he literally just said he isn't accustomed to the body. What?

Gotenks's time running out

Tagoma being hyped but not even being as strong as ssj gohan. Kind of disappointing but it doesn't bother me too much. I'd rather we rush things than take a while to get to U6 saga

7/10
IT'S CHEESE
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Crazy Awesome Legend

For me this episode was too stop start. There were way too many flashbacks. I waited 20 minutes for a proper battle but never got one. For me the pacing was way off. Both too rushed in some places and too drawn out in others.


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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Oh my goodness, this sounds as gloriously fan fic filled as I could imagine. Oh boy...

Togama steps in, his power is overwhelming! Our heroes cannot do a single bit of damage! Then suddenly Gotenks c*** blocks! He unfuses suddenly! Too strong, can nobody defeat the might Togama...then Ginyu pops out! Sudden transformation, the strongest of warriors arrives! Captain Ginyu's Almighty Return! His strength, is it possible? Above One Million!?!?!? Slightly irked! Gohan's legendary golden transformation! The tide have turned again! Shock! Gohan's utter beatdown! Merciless Freeza! Is the end!? Sacrifice! Piccolo's moment of tears!"

Like honestly people, how can you not read this synopsis, and not think of a bad fan fic on ff.net. It's actually kind of great because at this point, if Super's not going to show the respect to the original manga, or really even the original anime itself. You might as well just go off the walls and make up some hilariously obscene stuff.

But what's this? Vader is actually starting to get disappointed in Super? That may be a bigger shock than this episode.
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魔王子

I mean, there are plenty of things I don't like about Super, but this episode in particular was especially disappointing because there were a ton of interesting ideas that were just executed poorly. I still enjoyed the episode, but... more effort please.
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Gotenks wasn't handled well at all. We're they on another planet or something? Gotenks should not have taken so long to get there that the fusion ran out. The kid was flying hundreds of miles per second in the buu saga now he takes nearly 30 minutes to go a few miles?

Tagoma wasn't handled very well either. It's cool ginyu was there though
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 6 2015, 05:56 PM.
IT'S CHEESE
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I guess Super is talking notes from the Walking Dead by setting up some potentially cool things then pissing on them real fist. The first one is Tagoma, his personality change while rushed made him kind of unique amongst the villains and he goes away too quickly for Ginyu who's just gonna get murdered in 5 seconds by Vegeta.

Then we have Gohan, you give him some cool parallels between himself and Goku and their handling of Ginyu & Freeza respectively, have him suffer and watch Piccolo sacrifice himself to save him. In a good remake, Gohan would be the one to push Freeza at least to form 4 given the setup they've made, but nope. f***ing Goku and Vegeta are gonna do it. Couldn't even give the poor guy this even if the setup was perfect for it.
Edited by ekrolo2, Dec 6 2015, 05:50 PM.
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Tinny
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Wow, this episode was terrible. The special place here looks completely terrible. The pacing here is boring and lazy. Gotenks food friggin nothing while Ginyu frog is more relevant than half the z-cast because he can write change...
Maybe my memory isn't working well but did he ever do anything like that? Is this even a ki technique or magic?
And Tagoma was completely wasted.

Well... I guess we can rejoice, definitive proof that Beerus changed due to the BoG arc! Instead of saying it's good but greasy, it's greasy but good!

I guess Piccolo taking a hit is something but we already know he'll live, in addition to the generally subpar execution just makes it hard to care.

Honestly I think it's at the point where these can be considered in the same place as the movies in terms of canonicity, it feels like they know they're filler so they're putting fourth minimal effort and just doing whatever they feel like.

Yeah, this episode was dull and looked horrendous, watching an episode of Fate Stay Night before this was a mistake, makes the animation here really look stilted in comparison.
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My Dear Melancholy,

Quote:
 
Fate Stay Night before this was a mistake, makes the animation here really look stilted in comparison.

Damn the animation. Watching a good TV shows in general is a mistake before Super.

I hardly b*** and moan and cuss. But reading the summary. I can write a better fan fiction than this. Hell I already do.

Gotenks.... just.... what's the point. I thought someone other than Goku and Vegeta would be useful.

Gohan....: (

The throwbacks was nice I guess.


How about this!? Gohan saves piccolo for a change. Piccolo is down. I bet you there's no rage Gohan....



SAVE US UNIVERSE 6
Edited by QueenTD, Dec 6 2015, 06:35 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Quote:
 
Yeah, this episode was dull and looked horrendous, watching an episode of Fate Stay Night before this was a mistake, makes the animation here really look stilted in comparison.


At this point, I'm honestly starting to respect DEEN Studio's BS version of Fate/Stay more than this.

And screw 2006 F/SN.
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Tinny
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QueenTD
Dec 6 2015, 06:33 PM
Quote:
 
Fate Stay Night before this was a mistake, makes the animation here really look stilted in comparison.

Damn the animation. Watching a good TV shows in general is a mistake before Super.

I hardly b*** and moan and cuss. But reading the summary. I can write a better fan fiction than this. Hell I already do.

Gotenks.... just.... what's the point. I thought someone other than Goku and Vegeta would be useful.

Gohan....: (

The throwbacks was nice I guess.


How about this!? Gohan saves piccolo for a change. Piccolo is down. I bet you there's no rage Gohan....



SAVE US UNIVERSE 6
Gotenks was severely disappointing. Like seriously he couldn't have been that far away, radically since he's flown suited Earth for fun multiple times. Just man, Super seems to have a rep for oping Goku and such but amazingly literally everyone else has been nerfed to all heck. Seriously it feels like the guy writing that episode was "aw crap I don't like him... I know! I'll just have him defuse after hitting Tagoma once! Then my much better idea of Ginyu can commence!"

Still easily the best character in Super, even if it's partly because Pan hasn't really gotten to do anything.


Eh... Hype for that died down for me with the manga, nothing really that amazing or interesting. Might be good potentially, but I'm fine holding my breath for that. I wonder how much of that is due to this anime...

@Dark Matter
That's a low blow :p
Seriously why did no one start this on U6? Has anything come up that needs this prequel?
Edited by Tinny, Dec 6 2015, 06:45 PM.
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Jaco is pretty funny, actually
Tagoma's animation is...odd. IDK, he looks so much more animated than everyone else. It's like there was lots of effort in him compared to the others
Three minutes? That's pretty random, why three minutes?
Did they just censor Piccolo's arm getting taken off? Seriously, compare that to Nail getting his arm ripped off, Nail gushes blood but Piccolo just gets a slight flash of light. Is 4Kids running the show?
I can't emphasize enough how odd Tagoma's rape faces are. They're not bad, it's just that no other character has been so...animated. It's like Jojo or something
Oh come on, Gotenks takes him out just like that?
Lol at Gotenks defusing. Gotenks confirmed to be sub-sonic in speed, eh?
Ginyu writing in front of Tagoma was funny. Saying Change making it work, however, is stupid
Ginyu is hilarious
What the Hell is Jaco on about? That's the exact opposite of what Ginyu does
Freeza sweatdropping was funny
"Play with me". Beers confirmed for bad touch
Why is Vegeta suddenly better at manipulating ki than Goku? This was the same guy who f***ed up with ASSJ
Apparently, Saiyans can't breathe if the air is hot
Oh, Gohan is still mystic, he just can't use it. Why didn't he go SSJ from the start? And how did he survive a barrage in base form?
Gohan isn't even MSSJ anymore, but he's still beating Tagoma's body
Freeza's PTSD was a nice touch, and his torture was perfect
Piccolo blocking it is a nice touch, but I'm wondering how his cape got shredded. The Death Beam is a piercing attack as we see with Gohan, it doesn't explode on you. Also, Gohan's concern seems misplaced. Piccolo survived a far larger hole plus a broken neck from Cell
Edited by lazerbem, Dec 6 2015, 07:18 PM.
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